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VICTORY Is Not Defeat

Skewering Pompous AssIdiots

How to skewer a pack of pompous AssIdiots.
From the Political Debate Forum: [Use the link following the arrow to read the msg. I was responding to and gain access to the forum. ]
aldajjjal Posts 819 Last 4:59 PM
[Msg # 199684.137 Message 199684.137 replying to 199684.135 199684.135 ]

Date: 2007-06-25T21:59:06

Primary rules for intellectuals:

  1. ignore facts
  2. ignore common sense.

If thats your definition of intellectual it explains why you are wedded to violence and opposed to any efforts for peace.

Typical straw man argument, employing an element of projection. It is Islam that embraces and sanctifies violence.Peace is obtained by victory and maintained by superior strength and vigilance. The alternative is death, subjugation and slavery.

Fact: the Qur’an contains clear verses whose meaning is self-evident.

  • 3:7 …In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkâm (commandments, etc.)…
  • 27:1 a Book (that makes things) clear
  • 43:2 By the manifest Book (that makes things clear, i.e. this Qur’ân).
  • Tafsir Ibn Kathir: The Mutashabihat and Muhkamat Ayat: Allah states that in the Qur’an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone.…(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur’an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,…The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented…. [Emphasis added.]

In the Qur’an, Muhammad quotes Allah directly: “In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book”. In his explanation of the Qur’an, directly referring to the same verse, the most accepted Qur’an scholar verifies that fact. But Monty & Alex, being self appointed intellectuals, know better than Allah. They know better than an expert who spent his entire lifetime studying Islam’s canon scripture.

They can not accept the fact that 9:29 contains a clear imperative to fight and kill “people of the scriptures” who do not submit to Islam. They can not accept that the command is within a fight until loop, with neither chronological nor geographical limitations.

The clear imperative to fight and kill Jews and Christians is confirmed by direct statements from Muhammad and the agents of his successor:

  • Bukhari1.8.387: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.
  • Bukhari9.92.388: I have been ordered to fight the people till they say ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’ And whoever says: None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ waves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment lusty, and his account will be with Allah!
  • Abu Dawud14.2635: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us. When they do that, their life and property are unlawful for us except what is due to them.
  • Bukhari4.52.196: I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”
  • Bukhari4.53.386: …Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:– “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”

We have two fight until loops contained in 8:39 & 9:29 respectively, which are verified and confirmed by five hadith. What does the most widely accepted Qur’an scholar say about them?

  • The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah: Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:
    (…until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam. Allah’s statement: (…and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above all other religions.’
  • The Order to fight People of the Scriptures until They give the Jizyah : Allah said, (Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.)… Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination….

We have the direct statements of Allah, quoted by Muhammad in 8:39 & 9:29. We have five hadith which confirm those statements. We have the same texts quoted and confirmed by Ibn Kathir. Alex, John & Monty have:

  • intellectual superiority
  • moral superioity
  • smug certitude
  • condescension
  • no facts
  • no logic
  • no reasoning
  • a priori they are right, all opponents are wrong and all evidence is irrelevant.

In a pig’s!


June 25, 2007 - Posted by | Bigots, Studies In Islam


  1. People are prone to ad hominem arguments when faced with cold, hard facts, and too stubborn to change their position. Either that or they quietly drop the issue. I’ve seen it many times, especially in debates on Islam.

    Comment by mdvp | June 25, 2007 | Reply

  2. Being skewered, can they then be placed on a Texican Sized BBQ?

    Might that make them Islamo-Bobs?

    Fundamentally deranged ‘people’ need no facts. The facts simply obscure the absolutist arguments of the IQ challenged liberals.

    Comment by garfish | June 25, 2007 | Reply

  3. The Liberals being skewered in this case are extremely recalcitrant; totally and completely blind to all evidence no matter how well documented; no matter how frequently repeated.

    One of them uses an illustration of the Mad Hatter from Alice In Wonderland as his avatar. It sums up his attitude very nicely.

    My forum post has received an unresponsive reply from the aforementioned self-appointed intellectual steward of rationality, logic & morality.

    Click the link in my original post to visit the forum thread and enjoy the manifest AssIdiocy.

    Comment by dajjal | June 25, 2007 | Reply

  4. Gee dajjal, what a lovely bunch of brainless wonders you have discovered….the “Alice in Wonderland” of the internet. As if we needed more than the resident liberal trolls we have here.

    “Being skewered, can they then be placed on a Texican Sized BBQ?”
    Yup. Tastes like pork I’m told. And better with a…er…liberal sprinkling of Texas BBQ sauce.

    Comment by dsolo | June 25, 2007 | Reply

  5. dsolo, you should click the link and visit that forum. I first got into the old Netscape Mid East Tension forum in the summer of ’01, before the Abomination. That devolved into a rough and tumble, unmoderated jungle. I learned a great deal there. It has since been taken down.

    I was banned multiple times from the World Issues and News fora, which are run by an analencephalopath of the worst sort. It appears that they have marked my isp#, so that I can not get in with a different nick.

    The Political Debate forum could use some new blood, so, from time to time, I put out a link. This article was my way of doing that.

    Go take a look at Alex Krislov’s non-response and my response to it.

    Comment by dajjal | June 25, 2007 | Reply

  6. Oh my head hurts. This reminds me of the underground coffee shop chess games outside the CU campus in Boulder where poli-sci majors and their drooling sycophants went to work out their frustrations on the hapless. My brother and I, living only 30 miles away would go there to trounce them in chess and laugh at their rants and raves. This was back in the late 1960’s when beatnicks and hedonists were still slinking around. I can almost smell the place just thinking about it and the political forum conjures up the same memories….LOL.
    Fridays were especially cool when all the Alice in Wonderland sojourners would congregate for chess tournaments. The place reeked of burnt coffee and unwashed bodies laced with the odor of ganja. MADNESS!!

    That old adage; you can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink comes to mind after reading a few pages of the lady bat, Sysop krislov, MK and JC. Overeducated idiots equate to morons of the first order. You could not possibly get these assidiots to change their view even with a liberal application of furnace and hammer…the mettle(sic) is flawed and should be returned to the manufacturer with a large print REJECT stamped on it.

    Comment by dsolo | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  7. In 6 years, I have seen only two forum participants wise up. But I have led half a dozen to read the Prophet Of Doom.

    That crew at CS is totally immune to facts and logic.

    Comment by dajjal | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  8. Most trolls are. Just read the troll inputs on this blog.

    Comment by snooper | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  9. I just posted a powerful response to Alex. Check it out!!
    Check your email, Snooper; I sent a link to a page containing an absolutely vital JTF video.

    Comment by dajjal | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  10. Guys, there are few things more pathetic than building a webpage where you can lick your wounds and, whining outrageously, proclaim your victory in a fight you lost on another webpage. “Pompous AssIdiots?” I think you’re looking in a mirror.

    Comment by alexkrislov | September 1, 2007 | Reply

  11. By God, Alex, nobody could know about that happy feeling better than you!!!

    Tell us how you discovered this blog and delved farenough into it to read a two month old post. I suspect you ran a Google search on your own name to see how infamous you are.

    Comment by dajjal | September 1, 2007 | Reply

  12. (Chuckle.) No, sorry. A friend, however, did, and told me a pompous sore loser was whining here. I see you’re still whining.

    Comment by alexkrislov | October 24, 2007 | Reply

  13. What surprises me is the number of viewings this post receives, frequently as many as three per day.

    While I am glad that you derive pleasure from revisiting it, I hope that at least a few readers take away facts and methods they can use in debate.

    Comment by dajjal | October 24, 2007 | Reply

  14. ROFL! If it’s visited three times a day, that’s you visiting. I just came back for the first time in three months, only to find your self-serving whine. Really, Alda, everybody loses an argument now and then. Your response to losing is childish. Grow up. Learn to behave as an adult. You’ll be happier for doing so.

    Comment by alexkrislov | November 26, 2007 | Reply

  15. The grand total is 53, 4 viewings 11/26. So what brought you back, Alex? Did you read any other posts?

    Comment by dajjal | November 29, 2007 | Reply

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